KVCArts | Ariel Tweto and Bird Runningwater | Episode 9
(bold drumming music) ♪ (singing in indigenous language) ♪ - [David] Thanks for joining us now for KVCaRts, arts and entertainment, as well as the people and places providing it.
I'm David Fleming, and really happy to be able to welcome once again, Ariel Tweto and Bird Runningwater.
Thank you for joining us once again for this.
♪ - [Bird] Native Shorts presented by Sundance Institute's Indigenous Program.
- [Ariel] Thank you for having us.
- [Bird] Thank you.
- You're both returning for a new season, but I'd like to go back to how you first became involved in the very beginning of Native Shorts.
And, Bird, I think it really started with you.
- I think so.
(Ariel and Bird laugh) - That's a long time!
- I have no memory!
(laughs) - [Ariel] It was, like, 10 years ago.
- Was it really?
- Or longer.
- I think so.
- It was, yeah.
- Yeah.
- Well, you know back at that time I was running the Indigenous Program at Sundance Institute, was also a curator for Sundance Film Festival.
And, I recognized that short films have such a limited lifespan.
Like, they really only screen at film festivals.
- Right.
- And, they didn't have much afterlife.
And so, just through some conversation with staff here at FNX, we kind of brainstormed about trying to find a way to get-- to extend the life of these short films that had been curated into Sundance Film Festival.
And so, that's how Native Shorts was born.
- And then, you suggested Ariel?
- Yep!
And, I recommended Ariel.
- Thank you.
- Okay.
- Because-- - One, I'd like to know how you knew of Ariel, but then- you can think about this for a second, Ariel- I wanna know about that phone call that you got when you were sitting, what you were doing, and then you get this call or whatever.
But how did you even know of Ariel, Bird?
- I knew of her through social media- - Okay.
- first.
And then, recognized that she had this whole body of work from reality shows.
And then, also Andrew McClain and his wife- - Yes!
- Who was one of our Sundance filmmakers.
Like, I think they introduced us somewhere.
- [Ariel] Yeah!
That is.
Yeah.
And then, when I got the phone call-- I'm always just so grateful whenever I get work!
(chuckles) Like, you're just so happy just to-- like, I love being on sets.
And so, when Bird-- Yeah.
When they called, yeah, I was just ecstatic.
I was happy.
Yeah, and it's fun.
And then, yeah.
And now, we've gotten to become pretty close, and so-- we hadn't seen each other for a long time, so now it's so fun just being back in these chairs together.
- [David] It's way cool.
I've really loved the pairing of you two.
Like whenever we close, Bird is, (quiet) "Thank you.
I appreciate being here."
(Bird laughs) And, Ariel's like, (loud) "Booyah!
Yeah, let's do it!"
So, it's just-- it's really cool, so- - We're yin and yang.
- Yes.
- He's the cream to my Ding Dong!
(group laughs) - [David] Ah!
Edit point!
Hmm?
(laughter) Okay, Bird?
I'm quoting you, now.
Some folks have said things in interviews which then, like, hangs over them the rest of their careers.
And, this isn't a bad one!
What you said; I wish I could remember the article.
"Invisibility has always been the challenge in getting indigenous work made and seen."
Can you talk about this notion, please?
- Yeah.
Well?
You know, I think since I made that statement, there's actually-- there have actually been surveys and data that have come about that really show that 80 percent of Americans don't know that Native Americans exist today.
- [David] Gotcha, right.
- There's a $4 million, multimillion dollar study where they surveyed Americans across the country of every age group, every demographic, every racial group.
And, they drew this conclusion through all of this data.
And, they found that a lot of the-- the reasons why that existed is a number of issues.
One is most state educational curriculum standards don't teach about Native Americans.
I think 80 percent also of state educational curriculum standards don't teach about Native Americans past the 1900 year mark.
- Good God.
- And, we're not taught about past the junior high level.
- Wow.
- So, if you compound that with our invisibility within American popular culture, our lack of representation, we have a very serious issue of not only invisibility, but actually erasure.
And so, and you know, invisibility and erasure of Native peoples today is really kind of like a modern form of racism.
- Wow, yes.
- That's crazy.
I didn't know that stat.
Wow.
- Well, it's incredible.
I think I read somewhere, it may have been the same article, that they just don't exist.
You, y'all weren't here before, say, 1864.
- [Bird] Mm hm.
- Or after 1864, - Yeah.
- I should say.
Now you were, though, very instrumental in getting a lot of work made and seen as we were just talking about.
You were responsible for-- tell me about the Native Lab of the Institute.
- [Bird] Yeah.
- And, the projects such as, say, "Four Sheets to the Wind", "Miss Navajo", "Drunktown's Finest".
- Oh, yeah.
- There are several in here.
- Those are classics!
- Yeah.
(Bird laughs) - Well?
I mean, I do have to give credit to Robert Redford, who's the founder of Sundance Institute because his mentoring and nurturing of Native American filmmakers and storytellers started long before Sundance Institute was ever created.
And, when he took this notion of supporting filmmakers, indigenous filmmakers, he built the Sundance Institute around that concept and kind of basically opened it up to American filmmakers, in general, but ensured that there would always be a thread of work supporting native filmmakers.
And so, I was the third native staffer to take over the line of work.
- Oh!
- And so, I just really kind of continued a support model called the Native Lab.
At first we focused on just writing, and then we kind of shifted to focus on directing.
All the while kind of starting to build support for producers, building support for episodic, you know, writers and everybody.
And so, it's kind of been just a really great, you know, really concentrated nurturing method to support really interesting and distinct voices.
- You had at some point-- this was in New Zealand, I believe.
There was a film that you were a part of.
You curated it, I believe, and I think almost nobody knew of its existence.
I mean, beyond at the festival itself, but then started, it started taking award after award.
And, suddenly people, "oh, there it is."
- Yes.
- So, this was-- can you talk a bit little about-- - The black and white film?
- Yes, yes.
- Oh, little certain black and white film.
- Is that Taika's?
- Yes!
- Ha!
Ha!
I even knew that, and I don't know a lot!
(Bird laughs) - Yeah, it was Taika Waititi's first short film called, "Two Cars, One Night".
That was-- we programmed it back in the 2004 Sundance Film Festival.
And, you know, and I recently actually introduced him at a Hollywood reporter luncheon because now he's an Oscar winner for best adapted screenplay.
He's a director of the Thor franchise: "Thor: Ragnarok", "Thor: Love and Thunder".
He won the Oscar for "Jojo Rabbit".
And so, yeah.
So, I helped, you know, build his career.
'Cause I showed two of his first short films at Sundance and helped him make two of his features.
- [David] Oh, wow.
Yeah, and he has gone on.
So, this is a really good example of something that was a short, and it's gone further since then.
And, we may go back to that.
But, back now to Native Shorts.
Native Shorts presented by Sundance Institute's Indigenous Program.
I'd like to hear about any early conversations about how you two would present yourselves as hosts for Native Shorts.
And, that is-?
I don't know; it depends on the film, of course.
But, any of this: Ariel, you'll react; Bird, you'll give us the background.
And, of course, this could change film by film.
Do you just-- is it a quick chat before we start?
Or, is it-?
You kind of talked about this from the beginning.
- Well, I see myself as the-- like, the viewer.
Like I want, like I-?
Like, the viewer watches it and then sometimes they're-- like, they're laughing.
Other times they're like, "what did-?
I don't understand that film at all."
Other times they're just heartbroken or sad.
Other times they're like, "oh, my God!
What just happened?"
But, I want-- like, I see myself as the everyday viewer.
And, 'cause I mean, he's just a encyclopedia of knowledge!
(Bird laughs) And, I could ask him pretty much anything and he'll know the answer, and stats, and about the directors, the actors, the producers, everything.
And so, I think my role is to be the everyday viewer of asking questions that I think they might ask or confusions that they might have.
- Gotcha.
- And so, that's I think, my role.
I don't even think that was your question, but-- - Pretty much was.
- Oh, I think it is.
Yeah, yeah.
- Who would react-?
- Yeah.
- And, I felt like that's kind of the chemistry we needed because I-- and also whenever I pitched the show, like, I wasn't even interested in being a host.
- Oh, okay.
- I wanted us to find hosts.
And then, some of the staffers here at FNX had insisted that because I knew every backstory, every nuance, every tribe, every whatnot, they were like, "you have to do this."
And so, they twisted my arm.
And, I felt like-- yeah.
So, when you're curating a lot of it, there's so much theory.
You know?
- Yeah.
Oh, my gosh.
- Theory, and-- - Especially in short films.
- Yeah.
And so much, you know, just kind of weird stuff that the everyday person doesn't think about.
(David chuckles) And, we needed to find a way to, you know, give it some levity and-- - Yeah.
'Cause I think the everyday viewer doesn't go in looking at a short film thinking about the, like-- like similes or like-?
- [David] Right, right.
- All these, like, "film noir", and all that jargon.
And, they're more like me where they're like, "what?"
(chuckles) Or just like, "oh, this-?"
Like, we don't have that, I guess, backstory of or knowledge about film.
And, he does.
And so, I think it's a fun, fun mix.
- Yeah.
- And, also though, look at his face and his fashion sense.
He needs to be on camera!
(Bird laughs) - You do.
(David and Bird laugh) - Perfect segue!
Well?
And, no!
You're right.
Most people outside of academia would not be looking at, yeah, whatever the theory behind it, or what they're really trying to say.
A lot of people will just be going for-- - A story.
- A film.
- Mm hm.
- Here's a story.
I hope it makes me laugh.
I hope it makes me cry.
I hope, you know?
Good episode of MASH; it'll do it.
You know, that kind of thing.
Bird, you were at the Sundance Institute for 20 years, close to-?
Until close to this time I think, in 2021.
Was something like this-?
Native Shorts, you said you had thought about it, but had this really been brewing in the back of your mind for quite some time?
How long before when you started noticing all these shorts that were basically going unseen to developing with Frank and the other folks here at FNX?
- Well?
Going back to artists like Taika Waititi and Sterlin Harjo, who made "Four Sheets to the Wind", and Sydney Freeland who made "Drunktown's Finest".
Like, they were all-- they could kind of be classified as like, the third generation of artists to that Sundance Institute supported from, you know, native and indigenous communities.
And so, but there came a time when they all made features and they were all moving on in their careers.
And, we had a question.
If we looked at it like a medicine wheel into four quadrants, we had a question mark in that fourth quadrant.
- Oh, wow.
- And, we were like, oh.
And, I started to panic.
I was like, "oh, my God.
Who is going-- who are going to be the next generation?"
- Yeah.
- And, what-- and through a lot of brainstorming with my staff and the leadership of Sundance, we really started to realize that short films is the way that you start a career, you know?
And so, we adapted everything across all of our programming to hone in and focus only on supporting short filmmakers through a writer's lab, through a director's lab.
And then, that was also like, "well, look.
"We need to get the word out to Indian Country that short films are a way to jumpstart a career."
You know?
And so, that's when we kind of like, "what can we do with all the existing short films we have?"
And, that's where Native Shorts was kind of born.
So, it was a really kind of like, really big kind of, you know, complex way of trying to shift the thinking of Indian Country.
Because even today, I mean we're, it's-?
It's starting to shift a bit more.
But, the notion of somebody coming from your community in Alaska, or my reservation in New Mexico, like a young person?
I-?
You know, I don't think they naturally think that they can tell a story or that they can be a writer or a director.
You know?
I think that's changing now with social media.
- [Ariel] Oh, yeah.
For sure.
Now, anyone could share their stories.
- You're an avid content producer on social media.
- I try!
(group laughs) But, that is true.
Growing up, I didn't see people that looked like me on TV.
Or I didn't-- like, yeah.
Like, I didn't know that I could be in TV and stuff until, like, high school or college pretty much.
And so, then I was like, "Oh!
"I could be the one that's--" Like when little girls are like, "oh, my God!
She looks like me.
"She's from a village like mine "and she's living her dream and, like, having a blast doing it.
And I could do that, too?"
Like, that's so motivating for me.
And I want to be, like, Eskimo Oprah or something!
(David laughs) I don't know!
I wanna show these little girls and little kids from these villages or reservations that, "hey, there are--" Like, just because we're from these isolated communities, like, we could still do anything.
Like, we could do whatever if we set our mind to it.
And so, it's been so much fun.
- I think at one point you had-- we'd already done at least one season, if not a couple.
And, I think that you had said something like pretty much nobody at your village had seen it because you only had one channel anyway.
- Yeah.
- Nobody would have to worry about if you said something a little blue-- - Same for me.
- You were worried-- - Yeah.
- About your parents.
- Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
No, no!
Yeah, we had one channel growing up.
It was pretty much the Weather Channel and soap operas.
Love them!
(group laughs) But, yeah.
- We had to go outside and turn the antenna.
- Yeah!
Yeah, you would.
Or even like, like making your like aluminum foil-- - Tin foil!
- Yeah.
(Bird laughs) - That's what younger siblings are for; send them outside.
- Yeah.
- Well?
When you have this pile o' films in front of you, because we're-- I mean, you have to screen so many.
Has someone at least sorted these by genre or anything?
"Hey, here's a two-minute one.
I'm not quite ready for a 48-minute one just yet?"
- Well, yes.
So-?
- Good!
- I mean-- (group laughs) I mean, you know?
I don't even know the numbers 'cause they've increased every year but by the time I left Sundance on the festival side, they were receiving about 12,000 short film submissions per year.
- Oh, my God.
- And so, there's a whole methodology and process.
There are teams of screeners who watch where every short film, just at a preliminary stage, gets watched twice by two different people and ranked, and coverage is written about it.
And then, when they start tallying, kind of scoring, and looking at how things are landing in the ranking system, then they kind of start to advance through a process.
So, there are teams of people who watch all of these films.
- I never really realized how much of an elimination process there would be.
I just know that you guys have a lot to watch before you can sit down.
'Cause folks, you know, watching can just, you know, "let's sit back and we're gonna watch this.
"And, Ariel, what do you think?
Booyah!"
- Yeah.
- And, that's what we get as viewers, but-- Oh!
Well?
(chair creaking) Any idea how many films that you have seen for these, you know, and I'm talking about all-in-all since we started this, since Native Shorts started.
By now, how many have you watched-- - [Bird] I don't know.
- For this?
- Four season-- - Four seasons, and there's usually, like, 8 to 12 per season.
- Yeah, maybe?
- Yeah.
- I have no idea!
- Yeah.
(Bird laughs) I don't know maybe, like-?
I would say 45 to 60.
- Yeah.
- Okay, wow.
- Yeah.
- And, you've already started for this upcoming season.
Have you gone through a lot so far, or you just barely starting?
- We-- today was our first day.
- Oh.
Okay, okay.
- Of season four.
So, we watched eight- - Yeah.
- Today.
- Okay.
- And also, if I could say, like-?
- Please, yeah.
- Just like, so there's the submission process of being considered for the festival.
So, part of our strategy was, like, how can we support emerging artists to write a short film, develop a short film, give them some money to go make the short film so that they can then submit to the festival.
So, that's kind of a lot of the backstage work that the Indigenous Program did and still does, is to actually help get work made that can be considered for the festival.
'Cause shorts are also very underfunded.
Like there's no-- - True.
- There's no money in the American system.
Canada has tons of funding-- - Yeah.
- For short films.
New Zealand, all the commonwealth countries that fall under the British crown.
They all have tons of art support, you know.
What an amazing idea: support for the arts.
- Wow.
- Yeah, so inspiring.
- We don't have that in America.
- No.
- We have maxed out credit cards!
(David laughs) - Well?
Are there any, say, favorite genres that you look forward to?
And, this could be-- okay, because it's showing something typically underrepresented, or just because it's the type of thing you like.
- [Ariel] I-?
Shocker!
(David laughs) I like the funny, like, lighthearted comedy ones 'cause I think it's so underrated in our community, too.
Like, you see a lot of the films and they are very dark, very somber, very hard, because we have gone through a lot as a, like, indigenous community.
But then, I like the comedy and the humorous ones because we are really funny people.
Like, I go to my aunties and uncles.
Like, I've gotten to hang around, like, comedians and stuff living in LA and everything.
- Sure.
Yeah.
- My aunties and uncles are so funny.
And, it's like, I wanna see that side of our, like, storytelling.
'Cause our humor is so, like-- just-- I think we're hilarious people, a lot of us.
And so, I enjoy seeing, like, the lighthearted ones because I think we don't see that side of our communities a lot.
And so, I really gravitate towards.
And, I love laughing.
So, I like seeing-- - I wouldn't have guessed!
(laughter) - I like seeing those.
- I like love stories.
(Ariel sighs) - Nice.
- Love.
- Yeah.
- Whether, you know, a romantic love, any kind of love.
- Yeah.
- You know, like, I just recently saw a meme from Res Dogs that said something to the effect of, "we've been through so much.
We're lucky that we can still love."
- [Ariel] Yeah.
- Oh, wow.
- You know?
- Yeah.
- And so, that's what I like to look for, are expressions of love.
- And, I love that you just said not romantic kind of-- it could be romantic love, but it's also love with your friends, love with your family, love with your community, love with nature.
That's like a big thing, too.
It's, like, we're so connected.
I'll speak for myself.
Like, nature's my everything.
Like, it's my church.
Like, I am in love with nature.
And so, it is cool to see, like, that side of storytelling too is, like, it doesn't have to be a, like, "oh, my God!
Romeo and Juliet love."
It's like, no-- - That would be great, too.
- Yeah, I know it is.
- We don't never see that with rom-coms.
- Oh, yeah.
- You know, like?
- Yeah.
- Why not?
- Mm hm.
(Ariel gasps) Bird.
- [David] Now, when you get these films, when the screeners have gone through them and they've eliminated this, that, as well as the other, and you get this, I think, this pile of films, okay?
Have they made sure to make sure that there's a fairly even distribution?
It's not all love stories.
You get some comedies, some thrillers, chillers, whatever?
- Yeah.
I think they're definitely diversity of form is kind of one of the criteria.
- They're making sure that before you even see it, so you're not-?
- Yeah.
- Well now, this could cover any of the years, okay, that Native Shorts has been running but I'd really-- and, of course, from both of you, tell me about any film that you saw.
Okay.
Right when you were just feeling the tedious aspect of having watched your 10th or 12th, or fifth whatever film, but then you saw one that really got you excited about doing this again and made you remember that you're looking forward to more.
- Aw!
So hard to remember everything right now.
And, our brains are fried.
- Yeah.
- I honestly like-- and it's like, Taika's was so good.
I always remember that one.
It was so good and so moving, and I love those little boys in it.
And, their acting was so great.
But, I always remember that one.
Aw.
What's yours?
- I mean, I think Sky Hopinka's work is really interesting.
- Which one was that?
- [Bird] Remember?
He's the experimental filmmaker with the inverted camera and the film he made in Alaska on one of the islands with-- and the indigenous language and he's experimental.
- Okay.
- And so, but it's like-- it's that really abstract work that you're-- it challenges you as a viewer because you're like, "what is going on?"
(Ariel chuckles) And, it makes you work.
Because one of the things I will say about Hollywood studio filmmaking- - Mm hm?
- is it cater-- it doesn't cater-- it doesn't challenge us, you know?
It's like it's all about effects.
It's all about big budget; blow 'em up, you know, whatnot.
And, you know, and you're spoon-fed.
You're spoon-fed a recurring narrative-- - To predict the ending.
- A recurring storyline, a recurring-- all this other stuff that's been done so many times before.
And, you know as audiences, we're very lazy.
And also, like, if you look at international-?
Like, I love film festivals like Berlin Film Festival where they show a global selection of films to an international audience, mostly German.
And, you know, and some of the most obscure, like, international experimental work from Spain; of, like, unrelated storylines and narratives that you're just-- where you're constantly questioning.
But you're engulfed in the framing, in the narrative, and, you know, even the lack of dialogue.
- Yeah.
- Like, I just love trying to figure out a film.
- [Ariel] Yeah.
Those films are the ones where it comes out and I'm like, (David laughs) what did I just watch?
(Bird laughs) And I'm like, "Bird, please, please enlighten me!"
- Yeah.
Yeah.
- Because, yeah!
It's like why was there a snail and a lollipop and a cloud?
(group laughs) - [David] And, he'll tell you!
- No, and he will-- - He will give you every reason, - And, I'm like-- every theory-- - What?!
- Behind it.
- Yeah!
Yeah!
I'm like, I'm like a sponge when I'm next to Bird, though.
Because it's-- I am!
Like, you learn so much.
And, I-?
Like, it is really fun for me to learn about filmmaking.
I went to film school and I'm learning more on Native Shorts than I am, like, in film school.
- Oh, sure.
- Yeah.
And just, like-- Yeah, just being around people that are so smart.
But, yeah.
No, those experimental ones though, they're a challenge.
But, I like what you said, It is.
We're lazy watchers.
And, it is like-- it's fun to learn something.
And, yeah.
I enjoy that.
- Do you know of any of these shorts that have drifted through Native Shorts, which have now been expanded into something more extensive, maybe even feature-length?
- Well?
"Two Cars, One Night", Taika's film.
- Okay.
- That was kind of a test, a test of a world and characters in a scene that he developed into a larger feature film called "Boy".
- [David] Okay.
- [Bird] And, if you watched the feature film, "Boy", that scene is actually recreated in the feature film.
- Okay.
- Yeah.
- They took-- I mean they not only built on the storyline, but they did keep the original and just truly expanded before and after.
- Yeah.
- Wow.
Totally cool.
- And then, also like Sterlin Harjo, "Goodnight Irene" with Casey Camp-Horinek in it, he has made-?
He made a feature called "Barking Water", which is a love story between two old people.
- Ah!
- And, the main character is from that short film, and her name is Irene.
And, she has to drive-- she has to break her old love, her ex, Frankie, out of the hospital because he's dying and he wants to get home to see his daughter before he dies.
- Oh, wow.
- And, they-- it's a road trip movie.
And so, they relive all of their history as they're driving along.
- [Ariel] And, that was Sterlin?
- That's Sterlin, yeah.
- Oh, cool.
- "Barking Water".
- I need to watch that.
OK, "Barking Water".
And, that-- - That's sounding not quite depressing, very touching as you were describing it, but then you said it's a road trip movie.
That kind of-- - Road trip movie, but it's-- - Perks you back up.
- A tear jerker.
- Really?
- Oh, OK. Then, back down again!
(laughter) Thank you, Bird.
OK!
- The Italians loved it.
It played at Venice.
They loved it.
- Oh, cool.
- It did well in Italy, this one did?
- Mm hm.
- OK!
(David laughs) I'd like to close by hearing from each of you about something that you've seen that really hits home for you in a way that, you're not just a part of this, but rather you get to be a part of this.
This could be a film or maybe something really esoteric, but what is really grabbing you about doing this, getting to be a part of this process?
(pauses) - Well?
I guess for me again like, for me, it's I like being able to showcase these short films that otherwise wouldn't have a platform for a lot of people to see.
And, again, going back to like inspiring younger kids to just be like, "hey!
I could do this, too."
Storytelling's so important.
- Yeah.
- It's so important.
Just-- that's how we connect.
That's how we evolve; that's how you grow.
And, I'm just so grateful and, like, thankful to be a part of that.
And, it's like, that's how you change people's mindsets too, and make us more connected.
And, like, there's films from all parts of the world and, like, we're so much more similar than we are different.
And, it's really nice being able to share all these stories.
So, I'm proud to be a part of this- - Beautiful.
- program.
- Bird, anything?
In less than 30 seconds?
- [Bird] Yeah.
Well, I think one of the things if I think back home in my Mescalero Apache Reservation community, it's kind of like people worry about me because I'm out traveling the world.
- [Ariel] Yeah!
(Bird laughs) - And, I've always wanted them to understand like, where I've been going and the people I've been hanging out with.
And, this show shows them that.
- Beautiful.
- It shows them the indigenous Australians, it shows them the Maoris, the native Hawaiians, the Sámis in the Arctic Circle in the Norway side, you know?
And so-- and I think, and now our show is actually broadcast on my reservation, which I never even thought that it would make it back there.
And so, people now 20 years [background music] later are kind of like, "Oh.
So that's where you've been going, what you've been doing, who you've been hanging out.
They're like, yeah.
And like, they're just like us.
- [David] Excellent.
- Yeah.
- [David] Thank you both so much for coming in.
This is a pleasure each time we get to do this.
Bird Runningwater, Ariel Tweto.
Thank you so much, and watch for Native Shorts.
- [Ariel] Awesome.
Thank you.
- Thank you, season four.
- [Ariel] Whoop-Whoop!
- [Bird] It's here.
♪
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